Well pump issue or electrical problem?
I have a Goulds submersible pump (model #76505412, 230v, 1/2hp, max amps: 6.0) that was installed in 1996 before I moved into my current home. Unaware of well depth but I have a six inch Campbell well casing cap. 32 gallon pressure tank. Last week I had a company come out to take a look at what our issue was. Said it was the pressure tank so my father and I took the old tank out and replaced it, the pressure switch(30/50 to 30/50), and all fittings including the pressure valve and tee. The water worked for 2 days or so and then no water at all. I changed out the buss fuses and it proceeded to work for another 3 days and again no water. So I bought more fuses thinking that would work again temporarily but this time after replacing, I flicked the pressure switch lever from off to start and nothing happens. I don't know a heck of a lot about electricity except to respect it, but after checking do so safely, I'm going to see if the pressure switch is sending power to the line to the pump. And next step after that would be to check the line that goes into the Campbell cap I guess if that is even possible. Welcome to the forums. The next logical step would be to check for power at the pressure switch. In the diagram below: 1 and 3 are 240 volts in 2 and 4 are 240 volts out. Yours can be wired differently. The wiring on 1 and 2 can be reversed and the same for the wiring on 3 and 4. Make sure pressure switch is not calling for water. Measure the two cables for 240 vac..... the in cable should only be live at this point. With the switch calling for water.....measure the output cable (going towards pump) and see if it has 240 vac on it. Thanks, I just checked, the pressure switch is not sending the current towards the pump until it is engaged like it should. Although, the input is reading in the high 300's and when I engage it I am getting a reading that starts in the 300 range and keeps getting higher and higher, I took off the meter at around 380. Mine is reversed as you mentioned, with numbers 2 and 3 going to the control box/pump and 1 and 4 being the input. Not quite sure what you're measuring there. You should have your meter in the next setting over 240 VAC..... if analog. A digital meter is automatic. You should be seeing very close to 240 VAC. 300 vac tells us there is an issue there. That 300 vac that you tested should not be rising either. At the pressure switch.....check from 1 to ground and 4 to ground. You should be seeing around 120 VAC from each terminal to ground. If you still see high voltages.....try your meter in a standard wall receptacle to see if that reads near the expected 120 VAC. 1 to ground and 4 to ground are each reading about 220, I realized why I was getting the high readings before. Operator error. Im also getting near 220 vac from outlets too, perhaps I've got a faulty meter? If the meter is digital change the battery. Thanks, just got home from the store to get a 9v battery and saw your post ray. Getting good readings on ground to 1 and ground to 4. As well as 120 vac when the pressure switch is engaged. Ok........so ............. have you resolved your pump issue ? Don't bother checking from the output side of the pressure switch to ground. That won't tell you anything. If one contact was bad you would still read 120 volts. You need to check for 240 VAC on the wiring going to the pump. No, Forgive me but where should I be getting the 240 VAC reading from exactly? When I got the new battery in the meter everything was reading 120 VAC individually. Am I supposed to be adding them together or just getting a straight up reading of 240? The pump is still not being triggered. Was thinking that a control box or start/run capacitor problem might be the only thing between me and buying a new pump and installing? Go back to the pressure switch. You have two wires that come from the panel. They will always be hot and measure around 240 VAC. Then you have two wires that leave the switch and go to your well control box. Those two should also have 240 VAC on them when the pressure switch is calling for water. If that's all good. Go to the well control box. You should see two or three wires (and maybe a ground wire) going out to the pump. Actually I'm not 100% sure what will be in your control box. Some just have a cap....some have nothing. Is there a make or model on it ? Obviously if there's a cap in there.....it could be bad. I just measured the two hot wires and did get 240 VAC, then checked the two that go to control box and had 236 VAC Was just down looking at it and got info from sticker on it, it reads: Franklin Electric Model: 2801054915; 230 volts Just to add, there are no cap inside, has 5 leads labled: L1, L2, R, Y, B There is no cap inside ?? Are you sure ? It should be a round metal tube like thing with two leads. There should also be a relay and an overload protector in there with a pushbutton that sticks thru the cover. The button would be pressed in to reset from an overload. L1 and L2 are incoming 240 volts. Y=yellow= motor common B=black= motor run winding R=red=motor start winding. I'm sure, had to get a start and run capacitor for the hot tub last summer, not saying I'm an expert but I am familiar with what they look like. It is basically just a 4 or 5 by 8 inch metal box with a screw at the top in the middle holding into wall and the row of labled leads at the bottom with an off white plastic insulating them from each other. The strange thing is there is a control box checking procedure label on the inside and has A. Overload protector with Ohmmeter B. Capacitor with ohmmeter C. Relay Coil with ohmmeter Also, thank you so much for taking the time to guide me through this. Edit: So I just went down and searched the area under the stairs where the well items are housed and I found an old cover to what must be the old control box and it does have a capacitor and a relay attached to the cover but the new one does not. I know we didn't switch covers accidentally because the old one is blue. new one is gray. Sorry to doubt you. Apparently that box was from a previous pump and has been gutted and used for a junction box. That would mean that the two incoming hot wires are just connected to two outgoing wires to the pump. Have I got that correct ? No problem, you have every reason to doubt me, I even doubted me so I took a picture with the cell phone so I could look while posting. Anyways yes that is correct. The pump you now have is a newer style where the cap is inside of it. The bad news...... if you are sending out 240 VAC on the pump wires then you have one more step before a bad pump is the diagnosis. Try going out to the well cap and check the wiring there for solid connections as well as 240 vac. We'll it could be worse I suppose, at least the well did not go dry and I need a new one drilled. 500-700 dollars is doable right now, 5-7k is not. I will have to do that tomorrow in the morning, I have a concrete casing about three feet wide with a big cap on top that needs to be dug around to be lifted out of place, then I'll have to hang down and disassemble the casing cap to get to the wiring correct? Perhaps we can leave the thread open for another day or so, that way if I have any questions tomorrow I won't have to start a new thread? This thread won't be closed. On DIY.com the threads aren't closed unless they are very old and the information isn't relevant anymore. Stop back anytime.... I'll be watching. Awesome, I will be around now that I found this place. Thanks again, really appreciate the help. So the elbow entering the well cap must have had a leak in the past or moisture was getting in because two of the four bolts that hold the cap down were broken off at first sight. I ended up breaking one more off and at this point I'm going to need 4 new bolts eventually to hold down the seal correctly (and most likely a new well seal?), so I figure I may as well break the last off and unscrew the threaded parts with vise-grips. Any input on that? And when I do get the last remaining bolt off is the weight of the pump and everything else pulling on the seal? There is grey conduit housing the wiring leaving only about 1/4 of the actual wires visible just as they go into the seal, so inspecting what kind of voltage I'm getting or if there is corrosion on the connections is going to require the well seal being lifted at least a foot or so correct? The pump and the plumbing in the shaft is not hanging on the cover. After you remove the cover..... you should be able to look down a foot or two or three and see the plumbing hanging on the side of the shaft. This is a wedge type setup that connects the water line from the pump to the water line going to the house. I have a feeling you will need a bright flash light to see your plumbing. Remember, we are talking about the north. I pulled my well cap and couldn't see any plumbing and i could see about 4ft down. I got the seal and the last remaining bolt off today, all the wiring looks good and I'm getting 6 ohm's of resistance reading with the power off. That would bode well for the wiring and the well pump would it not? I noticed something called a secondary arrester while down at the control box today too. Is it possible that could be my problem? I'm wondering if it could be that or possibly a bad control box now. Ummm, how are you measuring amps with the pump off? I think you mean Ohms. Amps X Volts = Watts Volts/Ohms = Amps 6A X Ohms = 240V 240V/6A = Ohms = 40 Ohms. Your readings, or what you are stating is not making sense. Please recheck what measurements you are recording. I've heard of torque arresters on a well. I'm not sure what the function of a secondary arrester is in your application unless it's just used as added protection from overvoltage spikes. Did you check for 240 vac at the top of the well ? I have a 1.5 hp pump for irrigation from my lake.The pump will start and run for 2-3 minutes and shut off. I have tested the capacitor and it's fine. Checked the foot valve and it's good. The rainbird controler seems to be fine, it's running.The pump just shuts down.Do I need a new pump? Thanx. Hal...welcome to the forums. It's best to start your own thread in a case like this since the systems are different. Do you need a new pump.....maybe. You need to tell us exactly what you have there. Is there a pressure switch that turns the pump on ? Do you have a storage tank ? It wouldn't be the capacitor as that part only helps to start the pump and that's not your problem. Can we assume for that 2-3 minutes that your pump is running, you are getting water and it's coming out of your irrigation system ? I would start by checking the power to the motor. Check it at whatever turns it on. Be careful as there may be 240 volts present in your system. Just to update I checked power under the seal and the power was there, so took it off and removed the pump/motor. Haven't measured yet but estimating it by ten foot sections it looks to be roughly 2-250 feet of black plastic pipe. The pump is a Brusier made by Goulds. Just wondering what the best way of verifying the specs of a pump for comparing when buying a new one? Its model number is 5SB05 but a google search isn't coming up with anything as it looks like the pump was manufactured in 1992 according to the label on pump, so there's not much online that far back. I found a 6SB05 pump online but it didn't have the motor specs included as it was a pump only ebay listing. Originally I was using the specs listed on the control box but it said pump was installed in 1996 and the pump says manufactured in 1992, so I'm not sure whether the previous owners installed a used pump or what because I'm getting conflicting info. Its model number is 5SB05 ... hi wellnow…. Is this your pump? Although it says 3-wire and it needs a control box? But if I understood this thread you don’t have a control box. I believe the first 5 means 5 gals/min and the second 5 (at the end) means 1/2 hp. But not absolutely sure. Goulds Bruiser Pump 1/2 HP 5GPM How many feet of pipe is that ? I went back to your first post where you left a model number for the pump. I can't find info on that number. Like zoesdad pointed out 5SB5 is the pump. The numbers after that denote motor and if control box is required. Maybe this is useful: 05SB05422C 1/2hp 230v 2wire (+$651.00) at : Goulds SB 4Submersible Pumps 5-18gpm - Model SB In that link they have both two and three wire models. The OP has an old Franklin control box that would suggest a three wire pump...yet it is not being used which hopefully means it's a two wire pump. Makes sense PJ! (Those little rascals sure are expensive!)
Related Posts:
Septic water pump issue
Septic water pump issueThe water pump in my septic system is not working well, two issues: 1. Sometimes the float just won’t trigger the pump, even if I lifted it, do I need to replace it or shoul...
Water source heat pump climatemasters problem
Water Source Heat Pump (Climatemasters) problem.I have a condo-Apartment in a High-rise building built in 2003. My condo is equipped with 2 water source AC unit (ClimateMasters with CMX/DMx contro...
Well pump problems
Well pump problemsHey Old Guy where you at? Thought I would pick you brain abit. I went to look at a friends electrical problem and since I was able to correct that he decided to see what I could...
Shallow well replace jet with submersible pump
Shallow Well - Replace Jet with Submersible Pump???I currently have a jetpump (1/2hp Wayne Shallow Well) that draws from I presume a shallow well since the jet pump says 25' (this is our new home...
Well pump problem foot valve or blader tank
Well pump problem... foot valve or blader tank?I've been reading old posts here for the last couple of weeks, and I think you all ahve helped me solve my problem. Before I go spend a couple hundre...
